From: GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu (Bill Gawne)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 10 Nov 1994 14:15:19 -0600
Bill addresses the assembled patrons:
"I guess a lot of you know something of the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Gordon Lightfoot wrote a song about the tragic loss of the ship and it
turned out to be the first song I learned to play when I took up the
guitar in 1978."
"Last year, I was visiting Detroit and went out to the Great Lakes Maritime
Museum at Belle Isle. I found a very good exhibit explaining as much as
is known about the Edmund Fitzgerald. I was struck by one particularly
noteworthy thing which Lightfoot didn't mention in his song."
"The Edmund Fitzgerald's sister ship was the William E. Ford, they
differed by only a digit in hull numbers with the Ford being only weeks
younger than the Fitzgerald. On that stormy night in November 1975, the
Ford was also out in Lake Superior and *was* able to safely make port.
When the Captain of the Ford found that the Fitzgerald was overdue, he
took his ship back out and searched all night and into the next day for
the Fitzgerald. The ship's log of the Ford shows that they passed right
over the Fitzgerald, which by that time had sunk."
Bill looks over at Mike Callahan, who pours a shot of Canadian Mist and
passes it over silently.
"A toast, my friends, to the Captain and crew of the William E. Ford."
The drink is tossed back, and the glass shatters in the fireplace.
CCCRRRRAAASSSSHHHH!!!
The following was originally posted to rec.music.folk last year by
Duane Collicott <collicot@brutus.aa.ab.com>.
___Begin Included Text________________________________________________________
The Edmund Fitzgerald went down in November 10, 1975, and at the time
was one of the largest Great Lakes ore freighters (729 ft). All 29
crew aboard were lost, and she now lies in 530 feet of VERY cold water
in two pieces. I believe only remote-control submarines have visited
her, one of them being Cousteau's (sp?). They found everything in it's
place, the Captain at the helm, and crew members at their posts.
There's an award-winning documentary on this. The only place I know to
get it is from the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point
(Paradise, MI). I'm sure there are other sources, though. The museum
is very good, and should be checked-out if you're ever in the Sault Ste
Marie area of Ontario or Michigan's Upper Peninsula. They have
artifacts from ships, including the Fitzgerald. Have a pasty while
you're there, too!
The factual (confirmed) part of the story is that she headed out of
Superior, WI, the morning before, loaded with 26,116 tons of taconite
pellets (partially processed iron ore) from the Missabi range in
northern Minnesota, headed "fully loaded for Cleveland." The Captain
knew there was a north-wester kicking up, so he took her along the
Canadian shore to find shelter. She was not too far behind another,
which I believe was the Anderson, but I'm not sure. They stayed
together, a couple miles apart, and kept in touch over radio and they
could see each other on their RADAR. They got to NE Lk. Superior late
the next afternoon, and turned to the SE. The storm had the winds up
to 50kt, gusting to 80kt, the waves were up to 30 feet, and ice from
the freezing rain was coating everything. When she was 17 miles (338
deg) from Whitefist Point, MI, (which would have given her refuge) she
just disappeared wihtout a distress call or any tone of urgency in the
Captain's voice. The accompaning ship looked around for a bit, but
nothing was found. I believe nothing ever drifted ashore, either.
The rest of the story has two sides. The NTSB and Coast Guard say she
just had too heavy a load of ice and snow and the seas kept getting
higher and was overcome when a cargo hatch gave way, and she split in
two when she hit the bottom. She did report the seas getting higher,
but the accompaning ship's Captain contradicts this. Also, it is
unlikely that splitting in half upon hitting the bottom would leave one
half right and the other half lying deck-down. This leads to the
theory very popular among those in the industry. On her journey around
the northern coast of the lake, she approached a small shoal (on the
charts), and came very close to it, according to the other Captain, who
could determine this from the RADAR, and even warned the Fitzgerald.
It is usually too deep to hit, but in a storm with 30-foot waves it
could be scraped and never felt or heared. This would explain why the
Fitzgerald's Captain alone thought the seas were getting higher... she
was actually getting gradually lower. Eventually, the force of the
waves against her filling hull cracked her in two and sent her very
quickly under. We'll never know for sure exactly what happened.
Other information... "Gitchie Gumee" actually is what native peoples
called the lake. I think it means "Great Water", but I'm not sure. The
"Maritime Sailor's Cathedral" is not actually called that (but it works
in the tune), but it exists and a memorial service is held every Nov
10. It's right down on the river in Detroit. The Fitzgerald
unintentionally left an anchor on the bottom of the Detroit River a few
years earlier, which was recently raised.
So, there you go. It's easy to see how this could inspire a tune!
My information is from the video, my visit to the museum, several
written accounts of the wreck (books and museum material), my Lk.
Superior dive chart, and my "Yooper" friend. There are many books about
Lk. Superior shipwrecks, if your interest takes you there. If you want
the lyrics, I can post or send them. I was going to enter them into a
file sometime anyway. Let me know.
Added later:
There have been a couple visits to the wreck, I think in the last few
years. Cousteau (sp?) made the most notable visit. It's lying in 530
feet of water in two pieces, one half is upside-down, I think. They got
some footage of it with a remote-control camera-sub. Alot of this
footage ended-up in an award-winning docuentary video about the ship
and the wreck, which is available from the Lake Superior Shipwreck
Museum (Whifish Point, MI), and other places, probably, but I don't know
where. I think Northern Michigan University (Marquette) or Michigan
Tech (Houghton) produced it, but I'm not positive about that either.
These are the facts... they put out of Superior, WI, loaded with 26,116
tons of taconite bound down for Cleveland. She was typical of the
large Great Lakes freighters: 729 feet in length, a cabin at either
end, cargo hatches along the deck between, and the familiar
rust-colored hull. They knew there was one of those nasty northerly
storm brewing, so they headed along the Canadian coast for shelter. By
the time they turned to the SE the next evening, which exposed them to
the storm, it was kicking up 30 foot waves and gusts up to 70mph. There
was another ship nearby, and they were staying close together to keep
in contact with each other. When they were 17 miles short of Whitefish
Point, which would have given them calm waters, they disappeared
without even adistress call.
The official theory from the NTSB and Coast Guard is that a cargo hatch
was just overtaken by the force of the ice and waves and gave way,
letting the waves in, and she split in two upon hitting the bottom.
However, the theory that sailors and many others agree with is that they
were gradually taking on water all along and spilt-up from the force of
the seas, sending her to the bottom quickly, and without time for a
distress call. The video footage showed the crew at their stations,
apparently not even having time to even begin heading for lifeboats. As
for support for taking on water slowly, they did report the seas getting
gradually higher, but the other ship disagreed with that and they were
in the same area, so perhaps they were actually get gradually lower.
The other ship also warned them a few hours earlier that they were too
close to a shoal that is usually too deep to hit but could easily be
scraped in waves as big as they were that night. In the motion and
noise of the storm you wouldn't hear or feel the scrape.
That's what I know. The only other trinket of information is that
somebody found her anchor left on the bottom the Detroit River from some
earlier visit, and I think they just brought it up this summer.
___End Included Text___________________________________________________________
Bill Gawne - in Callahan's as in real life. <gawne@stsci.edu>
Science Operations Specialist, HST | Disclaimer: Nothing I post in
Science Planning and Scheduling; and | alt.callahans represents an official
Master Sergeant, US Marine Corps Reserve.| position of any organization.
From: GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu (Bill Gawne)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: The Edmund Fitzgerald - song
Date: 10 Nov 1994 15:02:29 -0600
Bill (who is still in uniform) finishes telling the story of the Edmund
Fitzgerald and her sister ship the William E. Ford. Walking back into
the Lounge, he gets his 12-string out of its case.
[note: Callahanian John Cosby is visiting Baltimore and last night he
sang along with this, while I played my Yamaha FG-630.]
Bill sings:
The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald
by Gordon Lightfoot
The legend lives on, from the Chippewa on down
of the big lake they call "Gitche Goom-e".
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.
With a load of iron ore, twenty-six thousand tons more
than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty.
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
when the gales of November came early.
The ship was the pride of the American side
coming back from some mill in Wisconsin.
As the iron boats go she was bigger than most
with a crew and good captain well seasoned.
Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
when she left, fully loaded, for Cleveland.
And later that night when the ship's bell rang
coult it be the north wind she was feelin'?
The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound
and a wave broke over the railing.
And every man knew as the Captain did too,
'twas the witch of November come stealin'.
The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
when the gales of November came slashin'.
When afternoon came it was freezin' rain
in the face of a hurricane west wind.
When supper time came the old cook came on deck,
he said, "Fellows, it's too rough to feed you."
At seven p m, the main hatchway caved in,
he said, "Fellows, it's been good to know you."
The Captain wired in he had water comin' in
and the good ship and crew were in peril.
And later that night when her lights went out of sight
came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Does anyone know where the love of God goes
when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
The searchers all say she'd have made Whitefish Bay
if she'd put fifteen more miles behind her.
She might have split up or she might have capsized
she may have broke deep and took water.
But all that remains are the faces and the names
of the wives and the sons and the daughters.
Lake Huron rolls, Superior swings
in the rooms of her icewater mansions.
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
her islands and bays are for sportsmen.
Farther below, Lake Ontario
lets in what Lake Erie can send her.
And the iron boats go, and the mariners all know
that the gales of November remember.
In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
at the Maritime Sailors Cathedral.
The church bell chimed 'till it rang twenty-nine times
for each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald.
The legend lives on, from the Chippewa on down
of the big lake they call "Gitche Goom-e".
Superior, 'tis said, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early.
Bill Gawne - in Callahan's as in real life. <gawne@stsci.edu>
Science Operations Specialist, HST | Disclaimer: Nothing I post in
Science Planning and Scheduling; and | alt.callahans represents an official
Master Sergeant, US Marine Corps Reserve.| position of any organization.
From: patkigh@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Pat Kight)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 11 Nov 1994 10:26:13 -0700
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
In article <941110151549.63e01056@signe.stsci.edu>,
Bill Gawne <GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu> wrote:
>Bill addresses the assembled patrons:
(and talks about the 1975 sinking of the Great Lakes freighter Edmund
Fitzgerald)
Jezebel listens, and as always when the Fitz is mentioned, her memory is
pulled back to a cold November night in 1975 ...
"I was living in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan ... barely a year out of
college and two years into my first newspaper job, covering everything
from school board meetings to snowmobile races for the small daily paper there.
"The fall weather had been ... strange, for that part of the world, where
it usually starts snowing on Halloween and doesn't thaw out until May.
Snow had fallen, but only in spits; the town had gone all gray and cold,
waiting for the white blessing of true winter.
"I lived with six other women in a far-too-small house in a fairly
typical student ghetto ... only in our case, we were at the end of a
short street that dead-ended at a decaying bridge over the power
canal which cuts downtown Sault Ste. Marie off from the rest of the town
and the small college up the hill.
"The wind had begun rising early in the day. Not much rain, but what
there was threatened to turn to sleet. Two of my room-mates (friends
liked to call us the She-Demons, but that's another story) and I sat
huddled around the gas stove in our living room, old army blankets
tacked up over the doorways to conserve the heat, reading and
listening to Joni Mitchell. I remember that the wind was loud, louder
than I'd ever heard it, and managed to sneak through the smallest cracks
around the windows and doors, making the little house whistle around us.
"Robin had just said something about it being quite a storm when suddenly
the lights went out. It wasn't quite dark yet, so Jamie went to the front
door to see if the lone street-light on the block was on. The wind almost
ripped the door out of her hand, and she yelled for us to come look.
"At the end of the block, just at the barricaded bridge, the power line
had been ripped loose, and snapped in the wind like some giant whip,
sparking and crackling - and when it came in contact with the metal
structure of the old bridge, it made a sound like the devil snapping his
fingers ... about that time Robin noticed that each time the power line
hit the bridge, *sparks* flew from the electrical outlet near the door.
"We decided to get the hell out, so we flipped off the circuit breaker,
hastily packed some overnight bags and piled into Robin's '57 VW bug ...
I don't recall where we were headed - some friend's house or another -
but when we turned the corner a few blocks from the house, we found
ourselves up to the hubcaps in gray, swirling water.
As it really wasn't raining, we were perplexed ... until we got closer
to the St. Mary's River, which connects Lake Superior (via the Soo
Locks) to Lake Huron ... and saw that the wind was actually *pushing
the lake* up over the locks and into the streets, to a depth of about a foot.
"Understand that the lake level is normally many feet *lower*
than those streets, and you'll know why I decided they'd better drop me
off at the newspaper..."
Jez shivers in memory of the longest, coldest night of her life.
"Now, this paper only had five reporters, including the sports guy. We
were all frantically working on storm coverage when Shine Sundstrom, the
city editor (and one of the best damn newspapermen it's been my
privilege to know) looked up from where he'd been monitoring the police
and maritme radio bands and announced "Sounds like we've lost a ship out
there."
"A quick geography lesson: Michigan's Upper Peninsula is sparsely
populated. I mean *sparsely*. The Soo, as it's called, had about 15,000
residents at the time (I doubt it's much bigger now) and it was the
biggest town for miles (other than its substantially larger Canadian
sister across the river). As it became clear that a huge maritime disaster
had happened, it also became clear that it would be impossible to cover,
in the normal sense of the word. In the best of weather, the part of the
Lake where the Fitz was last reported was remote and inaccessible. The
closest "big" news media were hundreds of miles away in southern Michigan.
"So it fell to us - five green reporters, an editor and a couple of high
school kids who normally typed sports stats - to let the outside world
know what was happening in the first 24 hours or so after the ship was
reported missing."
Jez closes her eyes. "Never let anyone tell you reporters don't get
involved in their stories ... or that they don't care about them. We
cared passionately about that ship and its men. We*knew* them - or men
like them. You don't live in a small Great Lakes town without knowing
guys who make their living on the freighters ... or their children and
wives. The Lake, its shipping, its weather - they're all woven in so
closely to life in that part of the country that they become part of you,
whether you've ever set foot on a freighter or not.
"They sent me down to the shipping company offices, to a big, cold
warehouse near the surging water, the place where the supply boats
usually put out to restock the freighters with food and mail and other
necessaries. That night ... and for days to follow ... it became
something like a church, or a hospital waiting room, as women and
children and men whose loved ones were on the Fitz began arriving, by
ones and twos, hoping for some word that the ship was safe.
"Not exactly the kind of situation where a person can walk in, ask the
typical stupid newspaper question (`so, how do you *feel*?') and leave. I
knew some of these people. I wound up holding hands and making coffee and
chain-smoking in the parking lot, almost as anxious as those who had an
honest stake in the outcome ... and at the same time feeling somehow like
a vulture, with my little notebook at the ready just in case news came in...
Jez sighs. "Well, Bill just told how the story ended. I think I went
three days without sleep. I also wound up being the one stuck arranging
motel rooms and a helicopter and phone lines and stuff for the `real'
reporters when they were finally able to get flights up from Detroit and
Chicago... a service which, a year later, contributed to my being hired
by the Associated Press Detroit bureau... which, in a convoluted way, put
me where I am today. Uh, wherever that is...
"It was also the night - the series of nights - when I began to
understand the kind of reporter I *didn't* want to be ... when I decided
the work wasn't worth doing if it couldn't be done with compassion, and
that the detachment and `objectivity' most reporters are taught to
espouse are really kind of a load of crap..."
Someone starts to object - after all, aren't reporters *supposed* to be
objective? - and the Spinster, no longer in the business, shakes her
head. "You try looking into the eyes of a 24-year-old woman who's just
been told that her husband is dead at the bottom of an icy, treacherous
lake ... that she'll never even get his body back ... and try remaining
detached. Me, I'm not ashamed to admit that I cried with her..."
>Bill looks over at Mike Callahan, who pours a shot of Canadian Mist and
>passes it over silently.
>
>"A toast, my friends, to the Captain and crew of the William E. Ford."
>
>The drink is tossed back, and the glass shatters in the fireplace.
>
>CCCRRRRAAASSSSHHHH!!!
Jez salutes Bill, glad he's reminded her of something that was so pivotal
to her life. She orders one of the same, and adds:
"To all whose loves are sailors, and who wait for news beside the cold
and unforgiving waters."
(*crashhhh*)
--Jezebel
kightp@csos.orst.edu
From: hoggd@saturn.acs.oakland.edu (Dave Hogg)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 11 Nov 94 15:30:56 GMT
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A.
GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu (Bill Gawne) writes:
>Other information... "Gitchie Gumee" actually is what native peoples
>called the lake. I think it means "Great Water", but I'm not sure. The
>"Maritime Sailor's Cathedral" is not actually called that (but it works
>in the tune), but it exists and a memorial service is held every Nov
>10. It's right down on the river in Detroit. The Fitzgerald
>unintentionally left an anchor on the bottom of the Detroit River a few
>years earlier, which was recently raised.
Firehawk, who owns several books on the "Fitz", adds something:
"I would bet that most of you have seen the Cathedral on television,
although you would never had known it. The next time you see an event
from Detroit, and they open with the obligatory shot of the riverfront,
find the RenCen (the most visible building - one large circular tower
surrounded by four smaller ones). St. Anne's Cathedral is just to the
left of the RenCen."
"And Bill, you have very good taste. 'Wreck' might be my all-time
favorite song."
From: GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu (Bill Gawne)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 11 Nov 1994 13:40:01 -0600
>Jezebel listens, and as always when the Fitz is mentioned, her memory is
>pulled back to a cold November night in 1975 ...
[150 lines of gripping story snipped - but saved away]
Bill contemplates Jez. "That's quite a story, Jez. Thanks a lot."
He continues, "On the theme of Great Lakes sailing, have you - or anyone
else - heard Stan Rogers _From Fresh Water_ album? There's one song
on it named "White Squall" that will get to you if the "Wreck of the Edmund
Fitzgerald" does. I mailed it to Dave Hogg last night after he wrote
me about my earlier post, and I think I'll go on and post it here
too."
Bill feels quite cold, suddenly, and decides that something warm might
be a real good idea. He's been at sea in heavy weather, and right now
can feel the pitching deck of a flat-bottomed landing ship as she
takes a 30 degree roll. It doesn't take much at all to remember the
black water rushing up and turning to green foam across the bow,
leaving glaze ice on the railings and weather decks. Brrrrr...
"Another Canadian Mist, please Mike. And a cup of coffee too..."
Bill Gawne - in Callahan's as in real life. <gawne@stsci.edu>
Science Operations Specialist, HST | Disclaimer: Nothing I post in
Science Planning and Scheduling; and | alt.callahans represents an official
Master Sergeant, US Marine Corps Reserve.| position of any organization.
From: hoggd@saturn.acs.oakland.edu (Dave Hogg)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 11 Nov 94 20:18:56 GMT
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A.
>Jez sighs. "Well, Bill just told how the story ended. I think I went
>three days without sleep. I also wound up being the one stuck arranging
>motel rooms and a helicopter and phone lines and stuff for the `real'
>reporters when they were finally able to get flights up from Detroit and
>Chicago... a service which, a year later, contributed to my being hired
>by the Associated Press Detroit bureau... which, in a convoluted way, put
>me where I am today. Uh, wherever that is...
Firehawk, who is currently employed by the AP Detroit bureau, wonders
if Jez remembers who covered the story for them.
"Back then, Terry Anderson was just a young wire-service writer ...
but later he became slightly better known as one of the longest-held
American hostages in the Middle East. I don't know if he was the one
who made it to the Soo, but he was one of the AP writers who covered
the story."
From: 342E5B7@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (M'jit)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: the Edmund Fitzgerald - Song
Date: 11 Nov 1994 20:24:52 -0600
Organization: Central Michigan University
it should be noted that Lightfoot donated his earnings from this song to "the
wives and the sons and the daughters"
M'jit who is probably a victim of lag if she's not the only one to point this
out...
From: jmpierce@medea.gp.usm.edu (Jim M. Pierce)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 12 Nov 1994 02:58:20 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
I first heard of the Edmund Fitzgerald from the song by Gordon
Lightfoot. I think I was overseas when it happened, it wasn't on the
news when we got back.
Awhile back I saw the 'In Search of' show on A&E talk about it. Some
of those programs seem sort of hoaky, even if Leonard Nemoy narrates
them. They talked to the bridge crew of the freighter behind the
Fitzgerald. They had them on radar, about 10 miles ahead. All of a
sudden, it wasn't on the radar 'scope. Gone. A ship and crew. Stuff like
like used to keep me awake alot at night, back when I was in the Navy.
[ I had seen old movies, where they showed DD's in heavy seas.]
Then an old sea dog of an E-6 asked me what the hey ? I told him. He
told me to quit worrying, when Davy Jones wanted me, or the ship, it
would be our turn, but to keep an eye out for where the life jackets
were stored, and to stay away from those enflatables [ even if they are
named after Mae West] ! I survived a hurricane at sea, some ships don't
make it. Well, maybe sometime I'll go into more detail than I ever have,
on what all went on that night. All 10 hours of it. Seemed like an
eternity. My mother tells me she _knew_ we were in danger that night.
Sorry for the babbling, I have to get ready so I can lay some wreaths
this year.
[] Jez salutes Bill, glad he's reminded her of something that was so
[] pivotal to her life. She orders one of the same, and adds:
[] "To all whose loves are sailors, and who wait for news beside the cold
[] and unforgiving waters."
[] (*crashhhh*)
[] --Jezebel
[] kightp@csos.orst.edu
Thank you. I'm glad someone remembers those of us who have/do put to
sea in small ships.
For those that don't know: I spent 4 years aboard a 450 feet long DDG.
It got tossed around by Hurricane Camille, in 1969, northeast of
Bermuda. We almost capsized. Look up the King class DDG's in Jane's
Fighting Ships and realize we tossed like a cork, in a raging river.
150 knot winds, 50 foot seas. When the brige watch cannot see the tops
of the waves, you _know_ they are tall...
Oh, no I don't have flashbacks. And this post didn't awaken any memories
of that night. I have to make a concerted effort to remember it.
--
Jim jmpierce@medea.gp.usm.edu Disclaimer: Standard.
Video: The Breeders 'Cannonball'
From: jmpierce@medea.gp.usm.edu (Jim M. Pierce)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 12 Nov 1994 03:50:18 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Bill Gawne wrote:
[] be a real good idea. He's been at sea in heavy weather, and right now
[] can feel the pitching deck of a flat-bottomed landing ship as she
[] takes a 30 degree roll. It doesn't take much at all to remember the
30 degrees ? Well Bill, welcome to the club of those who have survived
such things. The ship I was on took three 57 degree rolls the night of
that hurricane. Capsize was 65 degrees off the vertical, for that ship.
A buddy of mine got transferred over to an Amphib ship, he thought
they were joking when they warned over the PA of a 15 degree roll coming
up... he told them why it was funny, after he stopped laughing. And they
threatened him with bodily harm. The ship I was on, listed 5 degres,
tied up to the dock ! [top heavy, two guns, asroc, radar antennae..]
"Boss ! Time !" Linda.
"Ooops ! Gotta Run !" DJ.
--
Dreamy Jim aka Jim Pierce B.Sc. Disclaimer:Standard.
Video: Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers: 'Learning to Fly.'
From: kightp@CSOS.ORST.EDU (Pat Kight)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 12 Nov 1994 10:03:00 -0800
Organization: CS Outreach Services, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA
In article <hoggd.784585136@saturn.acs.oakland.edu>,
Dave Hogg <hoggd@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> wrote:
>
>Firehawk, who is currently employed by the AP Detroit bureau, wonders
>if Jez remembers who covered the story for them.
"Hoo, boy. Now you're asking me to stretch the ol' memory cells. I do
know that Terry Anderson (whom I later met & got to know at various
j-conventions) *wasn't* in the So - I think he did most of his writing
from either Detroit or Duluth, which was where much of the "official
news" about the sinking originated.
"Let's see: Seems to me Pete Yost (who made szome small name for himself
covering the Jimmy Hoffa disappearance - helluva guy -) may have made it
up ... And Harry somebody-or-other. Argh ... I can smell the storm coming
in off Superior like it was yesterday, but *names* fall out of my brain
at the slightest provocation. I don't suppose the bureau has any old
lists of staffers, does it? If you could tell me who was *there* in '75,
I could tell you who came north."
--Jez
Always did have trouble with names...
kightp@csos.orst.edu
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - song
Date: 13 Nov 1994 06:42:14 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
In article <941110160257.63e01056@signe.stsci.edu>, GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu (Bill Gawne) writes:
=Bill (who is still in uniform) finishes telling the story of the Edmund
=Fitzgerald and her sister ship the William E. Ford. Walking back into
=the Lounge, he gets his 12-string out of its case.
=
=[note: Callahanian John Cosby is visiting Baltimore and last night he
= sang along with this, while I played my Yamaha FG-630.]
=
=Bill sings:
=
=The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald
=by Gordon Lightfoot
=
=The legend lives on, from the Chippewa on down
=of the big lake they call "Gitche Goom-e".
=The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
The way I always heard that line is
Lake Superior, it's said, doesn't give up its dead
Or maybe I'm just remembering a line from elsewhere in the song.
=She might have split up or she might have capsized
"Both," points out StM.
Or at any rate, they found
Half the ship upside-down
On the bottom of lake Gitche Goom-e
(apologies to Mr. Lightfoot for that).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I try very hard to say exactly what I mean. I'd appreciate it if you'd
bear that in mind and not try to "interpret" my posts to fit your own
preconceived notions if I'm posting in a serious thread. Remember: If you
throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 13 Nov 1994 07:12:50 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
In article <941110151549.63e01056@signe.stsci.edu>, GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu (Bill Gawne) writes:
=Bill addresses the assembled patrons:
=
="I guess a lot of you know something of the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
=Gordon Lightfoot wrote a song about the tragic loss of the ship and it
=turned out to be the first song I learned to play when I took up the
=guitar in 1978."
What Lightfoot didn't know is that the concept of "battening down the hatches"
was apparently foreign to the crew of the ship.
="Last year, I was visiting Detroit and went out to the Great Lakes Maritime
=Museum at Belle Isle. I found a very good exhibit explaining as much as
=is known about the Edmund Fitzgerald. I was struck by one particularly
=noteworthy thing which Lightfoot didn't mention in his song."
Well, as much as was known then. Sometime in the past year, the wreckage was
found and inspected.
=The Edmund Fitzgerald went down in November 10, 1975, and at the time
=was one of the largest Great Lakes ore freighters (729 ft). All 29
=crew aboard were lost, and she now lies in 530 feet of VERY cold water
=in two pieces. I believe only remote-control submarines have visited
=her, one of them being Cousteau's (sp?). They found everything in it's
=place, the Captain at the helm, and crew members at their posts.
And at least one large hatch open.
=The rest of the story has two sides. The NTSB and Coast Guard say she
=just had too heavy a load of ice and snow and the seas kept getting
=higher and was overcome when a cargo hatch gave way, and she split in
=two when she hit the bottom. She did report the seas getting higher,
=but the accompaning ship's Captain contradicts this. Also, it is
=unlikely that splitting in half upon hitting the bottom would leave one
=half right and the other half lying deck-down. This leads to the
=theory very popular among those in the industry. On her journey around
=the northern coast of the lake, she approached a small shoal (on the
=charts), and came very close to it, according to the other Captain, who
=could determine this from the RADAR, and even warned the Fitzgerald.
=It is usually too deep to hit, but in a storm with 30-foot waves it
=could be scraped and never felt or heared. This would explain why the
=Fitzgerald's Captain alone thought the seas were getting higher... she
=was actually getting gradually lower.
Er, not quite. Given that you've got waves, they get higher when the water
gets shallower (you don't believe me? Take a trip to the beach and see for
yourself; also note that a tsunami may be only a couple of inches high in
mid-ocean, though it may be many feet high at the coast). The fact that the
Fitzgerald was seeing higher waves while her sister ship wasn't SHOULD have
been a clue that the Fitzgerald was among shoals.
=Other information... "Gitchie Gumee" actually is what native peoples
=called the lake. I think it means "Great Water", but I'm not sure.
Let's esee, how did what's-his-name (Longfellow?) put it?
By the shores of gitchie gumee
By the shining big-sea water
[lots more poem about somebody called Hiawatha deleted]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I try very hard to say exactly what I mean. I'd appreciate it if you'd
bear that in mind and not try to "interpret" my posts to fit your own
preconceived notions if I'm posting in a serious thread. Remember: If you
throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
From: richard.krum@msfc.nasa.gov (R. Krum)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 14 Nov 1994 16:27:34 GMT
Organization: CSC ATD
In article <3a09fl$a10@nyx10.cs.du.edu>, patkigh@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Pat Kight) says:
>
>In article <941110151549.63e01056@signe.stsci.edu>,
>Bill Gawne <GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu> wrote:
>>Bill addresses the assembled patrons:
>
>(and talks about the 1975 sinking of the Great Lakes freighter Edmund
>Fitzgerald)
>
>Jezebel listens, and as always when the Fitz is mentioned, her memory is
>pulled back to a cold November night in 1975 ...
>
***Deletia***
>
>"To all whose loves are sailors, and who wait for news beside the cold
>and unforgiving waters."
>
>(*crashhhh*)
>
Da Boss Troll raises his glass, recites the "Sailor's Prayer"
"Oh Lord, thy sea is so great,
and my ship is so small..."
A plaque, just in the line of sight of the Captain on the Capital
ship, USS Ranger, CVA-61. 1,073 feet long, 5,000 souls on board.
And yes, the Troll KNOWS that ship is so small.....
<CRASH>
--Da Boss Troll
From: mca@christa.unh.edu (Marc C Allain)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - song
Date: 16 Nov 1994 12:15:23 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire - Durham, NH
In article <> GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu (Bill Gawne) writes:
>Bill (who is still in uniform) finishes telling the story of the Edmund
>Fitzgerald and her sister ship the William E. Ford. Walking back into
>the Lounge, he gets his 12-string out of its case.
>
>[note: Callahanian John Cosby is visiting Baltimore and last night he
> sang along with this, while I played my Yamaha FG-630.]
Patchmaker quickly pulls out Lady Vivamus (Yamaha FG 312 12-string)
which, of course, is perfectly in tune with Bill's guitar and plays
along. (Luckily, the song is usually sung solo, so no one will
expect me to sing along)
>
>Bill sings:
>
>The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald
>by Gordon Lightfoot
>
(Song snipped, but I have this way of hitting the strings on the last
verse to make the guitar sound like tolling bells.)
"Hope you didn't mind my jumping in, Bill."
--
I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. Patchmaker
But if you'd like me to play one, I'll even Marc C Allain
make housecalls. MCA@CHRISTA.UNH.EDU
From: mca@christa.unh.edu (Marc C Allain)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: The Edmund Fitzgerald - story
Date: 18 Nov 1994 12:25:43 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire - Durham, NH
In article <> GAWNE@signe.stsci.edu (Bill Gawne) writes:
>>Jezebel listens, and as always when the Fitz is mentioned, her memory is
>>pulled back to a cold November night in 1975 ...
>
>Bill contemplates Jez. "That's quite a story, Jez. Thanks a lot."
>
>He continues, "On the theme of Great Lakes sailing, have you - or anyone
>else - heard Stan Rogers _From Fresh Water_ album? There's one song
>on it named "White Squall" that will get to you if the "Wreck of the Edmund
>Fitzgerald" does. I mailed it to Dave Hogg last night after he wrote
>me about my earlier post, and I think I'll go on and post it here
>too."
>
I've heard that one, done by a group called 'Schooner Fare.' Folk
band out of Maine. That was years ago, so I'd love to see the lyrics.
--
I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. Patchmaker
But if you'd like me to play one, I'll even Marc C Allain
make housecalls. MCA@CHRISTA.UNH.EDU
From: cosby@greatwall.cctt.com (John Cosby)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: BOARD:Lamplighter's Almanac, 1994-11-17
Date: 18 Nov 1994 18:46:59 GMT
Organization: Anarchy, Ltd.
Add to this Gordon Lightfoot, writer of the song we've
been chatting about lately, "The Edmund Fitzgerald." Public
radio said he was 56.
---
Coz (John Cosby) - cosby@greatwall.cctt.com - cosbyj@nefarious.saic.com
I like songsmiths.
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